Ex-White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan Speaks Out on the Bush Admin Lies and Media Allies that Led the US to War
The former White House press secretary joins us for the hour on the heels of his explosive new book, What Happened: Inside the Bush White House and Washington’s Culture of Deception. McClellan says former White House aides Karl Rove and Lewis “Scooter” Libby lied to him about their role in the CIA leak case, criticizes the corporate media for acting as “complicit enablers” in what he calls the Bush administration’s deliberate manipulation of the public to build support for invading Iraq, and recounts the White House’s response to Hurricane Katrina as one “in denial.” McClellan also reveals the suffering of Iraqi civilians seemed to be of little concern at the White House, where he says the massive death toll from the US invasion was seldom discussed. And he explains his own personal transformation from Bush administration mouthpiece to a critic of conscience and why he’s now sympathetic to the journalist I.F. Stone’s famous advice to young reporters: “governments lie.” [includes rush transcript–partial]
Guest:
Scott McClellan, served as White House press secretary from 2003 to 2006. He is author of What Happened: Inside the Bush White House and Washington’s Culture of Deception.
Rush Transcript
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AMY GOODMAN: Former White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan has agreed to testify before the House Judiciary Committee on the Bush administration’s role in the outing of CIA operative Valerie Plame. McClellan was asked to appear over his assertion in his new book that top White House officials deliberately misled him about their role in the leak of Plame’s identity. The disclosure drew the attention of Judiciary Committee Chair John Conyers, who said, “This alleged activity could well extend beyond the scope of the offenses for which Scooter Libby has been convicted and deserves further attention.” McClellan is expected to testify before the committee publicly and under oath on June 20.
McClellan’s book is called What Happened: Inside the Bush White House and Washington’s Culture of Deception. It hit the bookstands last week, has created a firestorm in Washington. In addition to his allegations about the Plame case, Scott McClellan accuses the Bush administration of deliberately manipulating the public to wage the war on Iraq. He also faults the White House press corps for its conduct before the Iraq invasion, saying it was too easy on the Bush administration. And he criticizes President Bush for his handling of Hurricane Katrina. McClellan says the White House spent the first week following Katrina “in a state of denial.”
Scott McClellan served as White House press secretary from 2003 to 2006. Before that, he served as traveling press secretary for the Bush-Cheney 2000 campaign and earlier as deputy communications director in the Texas governor’s office under Bush. He joins us today for the hour from Washington, D.C.
Welcome to Democracy Now!, Scott McClellan.
SCOTT McCLELLAN: Good morning, Amy. Glad to be on the show today.
AMY GOODMAN: It’s good to have you with us. What do you plan to say to the House Judiciary Committee next week?
SCOTT McCLELLAN: Well, we’ll see what questions they have. This is a voluntary agreement by me to come before the committee. As you mentioned, Chairman Conyers reached out to me and asked if I’d come and testify about what I knew about the Valerie Plame leak episode. And most of it is written in my book. I assume that they will ask me to elaborate on some of what I wrote about.
In the book, I talk about how I was assured by Karl Rove and Scooter Libby back in 2003 that they were not involved in the leaking of her identity to reporters. It turned out about two years later in media reports, that’s when I first learned about it, when the media was getting ready to report it, that they had indeed been involved in revealing her identity to reporters. And so, that’s where the line of the questioning is focused, according to Chairman Conyers. And I look forward to sharing exactly what I know about the episode.
AMY GOODMAN: What are you going to say about Scooter Libby? What did he know? When did he know it? And how did you understand that at the time?
SCOTT McCLELLAN: Well, there’s certain things I can’t speak to now, in terms of the—and that’s because I don’t know what some of the facts are. In terms of the revelation of her—revealing of her identity to reporters by Scooter Libby and Karl Rove, I don’t have knowledge of exactly what transpired there, in terms of before her identity was revealed to reporters. I was deputy press secretary at that time, just about to become White House press secretary, and I was actually not involved in any meaningful way in the effort to organize a campaign to discredit Joe Wilson, although I did certainly receive some of the talking points, but I was actually taking some time off during that period to visit with some of my predecessors.
Now, what happened was, when the investigation was just about to get underway, I had been asked about Karl Rove, and I told reporters that I had spoken to him and he had told me he was not involved in leaking her identity. Then the investigation got underway, an official formal investigation by the Justice Department. I told Scooter Libby that now that an investigation was underway, even though his name was coming up among reporters and they were asking questions about him, that I didn’t feel like I could put myself in position of going down a list of White House aides and publicly vouching for them. And he seemed to understand that.
But by that first Saturday after the investigation had gotten underway, I received a call from the White House Chief of Staff Andy Card, and he said that the President and Vice President had spoken that morning and that they wanted me to provide the same assurances for Scooter that I provided for Karl Rove. I told Andy I would come into the office. When I got there, I was a little reluctant to do this, for the reasons I previously stated. I said to Andy, I said, “I will give the same assurances for Scooter, provided he gives me the same assurances that Karl Rove gave me.” I contacted Scooter on the phone that morning—he was traveling with the Vice President—asked him the same thing I asked Karl Rove: “Were you involved in this, the leaking of Valerie Plame’s identity, in any way?” And he assured me unequivocally, no, that he was not, just like Karl had assured me. And I again went before the press corps and said these two individuals had assured me they were not involved, when later it turned out that they were.
AMY GOODMAN: So did Scooter Libby and Karl Rove lie to you?
SCOTT McCLELLAN: That’s the only conclusion I can draw. They knowingly misled me. There’s no other explanation for it, because I asked them point blank if they were involved.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, I want to go back to the questioning by the White House press corps through that period. It starts right after Robert Novak wrote the piece that outed Valerie Plame. And then Russell Mokhiber is the second questioner, of the Corporate Crime Reporter, who—
SCOTT McCLELLAN: That’s right.
AMY GOODMAN: —that question is the one that you took back to Karl Rove and said, “Were you specifically involved?” And it goes on from there. So we begin in July 2003.
[White House Press Conference, July 22, 2003]
REPORTER: That column has now given rise to accusations that the administration deliberately blew the cover of an undercover CIA operative and, in so doing, violated a federal law that prohibits revealing the identity of undercover CIA operatives. Can you respond to that?
SCOTT McCLELLAN: Thank you for bringing that up. That is not the way this president or this White House operates. And there is absolutely no information that has come to my attention or that I have seen that suggests that there is any truth to that suggestion. And certainly, no one in this White House would have been given authority to take such a step.
[White House Press Conference, September 16, 2003]
RUSSELL MOKHIBER: On the Robert Novak-Joseph Wilson situation, Novak reported earlier this year—quoting—“anonymous government sources” telling him that Wilson’s wife is a CIA operative. Now, this is apparently a federal offense to burn the cover of a CIA operative. Wilson now believes that the person who did this was Karl Rove. He’s quoted from a speech last month as saying, “At the end of the day, it’s of keen interest to me to see whether or not we can get Karl Rove frog-marched out of the White House in handcuffs.” Did Karl Rove tell that—
SCOTT McCLELLAN: I haven’t heard that. That’s just totally ridiculous. But we’ve already addressed this issue. If I could find out who anonymous people were, I would. I just said, it’s totally ridiculous.
[White House Press Conference, September 29, 2003]
SCOTT McCLELLAN: There’s been no information that has been brought to our attention, beyond what we’ve seen in the media reports, to suggest White House involvement.
It’s public knowledge. I’ve said that it’s not true. And I have spoken with Karl Rove. I’m not going to get into conversations that the President has with advisers or staff or anything of that nature. That’s not my practice.
[White House Press Conference, July 12, 2005]
REPORTER: You have said to the public, dating back to 2003, affirmatively, Karl Rove was not involved, and now we have evidence to the contrary. So how do you reconcile those two things? How does the President reconcile those two facts?
SCOTT McCLELLAN: Again, if I were to get into discussing this, I would be getting into discussing an investigation that continues and could be prejudging the outcome of the investigation. I’m not going to do that from this podium.
REPORTER: We know what the facts are. We know that Karl Rove spoke about Joseph Wilson’s wife, referring to the fact that she worked at the agency. You’ve heard Democrats who say that—say today that alone was inappropriate conduct. What was Karl Rove trying to accomplish by having the conversation he did? And does the President think that it was fair of him to do that? Was it fair game?
SCOTT McCLELLAN: Now, that’s the question related to an ongoing investigation. The investigation continues, David. I think you know that very well. I’ve responded to that question. And if I were to start commenting on news reports or things related to the investigation, I’m getting into prejudging the outcome of that investigation.
REPORTER: But there’s a difference between what’s legal and what’s right. Is what Karl Rove did right?
SCOTT McCLELLAN: Well, I mean, you can state the obvious. I understand and appreciate that, and I appreciate you all. I know you all want to get to the bottom of this. I want to get to the bottom of it. The President has said no one wants to get to the bottom of it more than he does. We want to see it come to a successful conclusion.
REPORTER: At the very least, though, Scott, could you say whether or not you stand by your statement—
SCOTT McCLELLAN: John, I’ll come back to you if I can.
REPORTER: —of September 29th, 2003, that it’s simply not true that Karl Rove disclosed the identity of a CIA operative? Can you stand by that statement?
SCOTT McCLELLAN: John, I look forward to talking about this at some point, but it’s not the appropriate time to talk about those questions, while the investigation is continuing.
HELEN THOMAS: Has he apologized to you for telling you he is not involved?
SCOTT McCLELLAN: Helen, I’m not going to get into any private discussions.
HELEN THOMAS: I mean, he put you on the spot. He put your credibility on the line.
SCOTT McCLELLAN: And, Helen, I appreciate you all wanting to move forward and find the facts relating to this investigation. I want to know all the facts relating to the investigation.
HELEN THOMAS: You people are on the record, one quote after another.
SCOTT McCLELLAN: The President wants to get to the bottom of it. And it’s just not appropriate.
AMY GOODMAN: That was Scott McClellan being questioned over the years about the outing of the Valerie Plame. Scott McClellan, as you listen to that once again, your thoughts?
SCOTT McCLELLAN: Well, I was definitely put in a tough spot. The White House counsel’s office, when it became known publicly that Karl Rove and Scooter Libby later had been involved in leaking her identity, I was told that we could not comment on it, because it was an ongoing legal proceeding or ongoing investigation at that point. It’s a terrible spot for a spokesman to be put into. You have to be able to set the record straight if something you say turns out to be false. In this instance, I unknowingly passed along false information.
I actually in the book talk about how I should have never put myself in that position in the first place, looking back at that time period. But I did tell reporters, as it touched on in those comments, that some day I looked forward to talking about what I knew and sharing with them the information that I knew. And I’ve now done that in the book that I have written. It’s one part of the book. But I felt it was important to let the public know exactly what I knew.
Now, my credibility was undermined terribly during that time period, since I could not set the record straight or defend the comments that I had previously made. White House reporters actually were the ones that, more than anyone else, came to my defense during that time period and went on the air and actually responded to questions, saying that Scott’s credibility is unquestioned, that he’s a straight shooter, and we know he’s been put in a bad spot. But at the same time, as you heard there, they had an obligation to press me and ask me to set the record straight. They were absolutely right.
I was in a tough spot. And it was a problem that I could not defend my previous comments from two years ago or correct the record about those comments. And it led to my last ten months as being press secretary. It led to a very disillusioning period for me. That was the beginning of the disillusionment.
And later there was some other disillusioning moments for me, when additional information came to light in the legal proceedings, including the fact that the President had been the one who had authorized the Vice President to anonymously get information out from the National Intelligence Estimate, not Valerie Plame’s name specifically. But we had been decrying the selective leaking of classified information for years, and then I learned from the President that he indeed had authorized the selective leaking of previously classified information, which he has the full legal right to do, but it really undermined a lot about what we had said. And that was in early April 2006 when I learned about that. And it set in motion, in my mind, the need for me to move on from the administration, which actually happened a little earlier than I had planned on doing.
AMY GOODMAN: Scott McClellan, explain where you were and the conversation you had with the President on his admitting to the leaking.
SCOTT McCLELLAN: It was early April 2006. We had traveled to North Carolina for an event that morning. As we finished the event and went back to Air Force One, the President—in the time period the President had been at that event, it had become known publicly through Patrick Fitzgerald’s legal filings that Scooter Libby had been authorized to leak parts of the National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq in order to defend some of the comments that were previously made, specifically the reference to Niger and Iraq seeking uranium from Niger in the President’s 2003 State of the Union address. Now, as the President was boarding Air Force One, a reporter yelled out to him something to the effect about whether or not he had been the one who had authorized the disclosure of the National Intelligence Estimate and authorized Scooter Libby to do that.
I got on board Air Force One, walked into the President’s office, which is at the front of Air Force One, and the President was asking what the reporter was yelling. And Dan Bartlett, the counselor, first made a comment. Then I said, “He was asking about whether or not you specifically had authorized Scooter Libby to disclose that information in the National Intelligence Estimate.” And he looked at me and said, “Yeah, I did.” And I was somewhat taken aback. I could tell he didn’t want to visit any longer about it. I was still learning more about what exactly he had authorized and went back to Air Force—my office or my seat in Air Force One and began to find out more information. It was quite a disillusioning moment.
Now, I talk about in the book how it could be viewed that this actually may have set in motion a chain of events that created this permissive environment for the leaking of Valerie Plame’s name. I don’t think that the President was involved in any way in that aspect of things. I think he was misled, as well, by Karl Rove and by others about their involvement in the leak episode.
What I don’t know is the Vice President’s role in all of this. He took the lead in the effort to discredit Joe Wilson, and I think it became known—or during the trial of Scooter Libby, Patrick Fitzgerald publicly stated, in response to Libby’s lawyers saying that the prosecutor was trying to put a cloud over the Vice President, he said, “No, it’s Scooter Libby who has put a cloud over the Vice President and his office. He’s the one who has left this suspicion there.” And I don’t know that we’ll ever know the facts, because those who do know the facts are not likely to say anything about it.
AMY GOODMAN: On that issue of Russell Mokhiber asking that first question implicating Rove, this was after Joe Wilson said he wanted to see Karl Rove frog-marched out of the White House, and Russell Mokhiber of Corporate Crime Reporter asked you that question, as you said in the book, on September 16, 2003.
SCOTT McCLELLAN: Right.
AMY GOODMAN: You interrupted Russell and said that’s ridiculous, that’s “totally ridiculous.” Why say it was ridiculous?
SCOTT McCLELLAN: Well, the way the question was phrased, it was implying that Karl Rove may have created—may have committed a crime, and I thought that surely Karl, you know, he’s someone that plays hardball politics and might push the envelope, but surely he wouldn’t be someone who would be involved in committing a crime. And that was the tone of the questioning, and so I did jump in there. I think that was sometime in mid-September or earlier in September, before we were aware that there was a Justice Department investigation into this.
Immediately after that briefing, I ran into Karl Rove, and I asked him specifically, “Were you one of the two resources that were named for Robert Novak and responsible for leaking her name?” And Karl Rove confirmed with me that he was not one of the sources at that time.
Now, it was about two weeks later, maybe a little bit less, when the Washington Post was writing a story about how White House officials—I think it was at least two White House officials—had disclosed to at least five reporters the identity of Valerie Plame, and that’s when I talked to Karl the second time and learned that he had indeed spoken to Novak, but the impression I—or the words I received from Karl was that he couldn’t confirm it, because he didn’t know about Valerie Plame at the time. So that’s where I’d come to the conclusion that, yes, I was knowingly misled by Karl, I was knowingly misled by Scooter Libby, as well—two colleagues, one I had known since my days in Texas. And I took them at their word, and I shouldn’t have.
AMY GOODMAN: You said that he lied to you—Karl Rove.
SCOTT McCLELLAN: Yes.
AMY GOODMAN: Do you believe he committed a crime?
SCOTT McCLELLAN: I don’t know. And he wasn’t charged with a crime, so I would hesitate to even go down that road. But what he did was wrong. Whether or not he knew she was a covert official or not and how he learned that, it was still wrong to have her name and have her identity publicly revealed to reporters. It should have never happened. And that’s something I talk about in the book, as well.
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